Direct Game v Delayed Direct v Indirect

Let’s start with the baseline.

You’re eating right and working out.  You been to the dentist and the barber.  You got a little spending money, your own car or transportation, and your own spot.  You’re dressing the best you can, and you dress right for the venue.

That’s the baseline.  That’s the baseline that you work on every day, every hour, every minute, every second of your life.  A man is in a continual state of improvement.  When you aren’t doing anything in particular, you’re conserving your energy, meditating, letting your muscles heal.

So let’s start there.

Let’s then look at the state of the world

History teaches us that only 40% of our ancestors reproduced.

Most guys aren’t in the race.

So let’s just assume that only 4 out of 10 guys are really trying to meet a chick to get with.  Of the guys that are in the race, very few even attempt to make themselves presentable.  That’s the visual aspect of the game.

What about the behavioral aspect of the game? How many of them have heard of game, much less know game?  Just reading any game blog puts you head of 98 out of 100 guys.  Reading mine, well that’s put you ahead of 99 out of 100 guys (lol).

So how do those 40% actually meet a chick and make a family?

School, Work, Church, Friends of Family, and friends of friends.

Meeting a girl through cold approach?  That’s the stuff you only see in movies (porn usually), or see certain guys do.

And what kind of game do these guys use?

Hey, how you doing?

That’s it.

They go direct, and they ask boring questions.  The girl knows the dance, and she makes her assessment right then and there, and decides whether or not if she wants to comply.

In the late 90’s, the guys going out to clubs quickly realized that such a simple and straightforward approach didn’t get them the results that they wanted.

Part of that is because they weren’t particularly honest about what they wanted from the girl (We’ll discuss Mode One at some point).  But if you approach a girl, at a club, she can rightfully assume sexual intent.  Based on that information alone, she’ll make the “spend time with this guy” decision, INSTANTLY.  This is where the dreaded “5 seconds, she knows whether or not…” type stuff comes from.

When PUA was coming together, it basically dispelled this myth and made the “dance” between two strangers seem far less mysterious.

And then it all died, you know the drill.  So what do game guys since the death of Mystery Method talk about?

They front load their ability to attract by looking good.  Not just physically through diet, exercise, and clothes – but also socially and financially.   With the visual covered, the behavioral component is to “Act Alpha” (bro!).  So this is “Mode One”, “Emotionally Honest”, “Being a Man and not beating around the bush”.

This return to being a “real man” basically flies in the face of everything learned in the late 90’s/early 00’s.

If you’re a long time reader of WIA, you know this whole meathead approach to the game bothers the hell out of me.

Why?

I’m black.

I’ve been around that my entire life. That’s the epitome of black athlete “game”.

We haven’t talked much about black guy game, so let’s do that now

  • Black Athlete Game – Look big. Be muscular. Be tall
  • Gangsta Game – Look intimidating
  • Baller Game – These are the guys popping bottles.
  • Dancing Guy Game – This is the guy in the middle of the dance floor trying to grab on to any chick close by
  • Rasta/Foreigner game
  • Alternative Black Guy Game – Alternative is relative, but this is the guy wearing H&M when everyone else is in Jerseys.  Or when everyone is fashionable, he is ULTRA fashionable.  The type of guy that

This should be in your memory banks if you go to urban events.  Most guys there try to fit in to one of those categories – but most of the time they fail because they don’t go all the way.  Halfway crooks.

Now for non-black guys that decide to go the meathead route, they think they’ve unlocked some kinda cheat code. Maybe being a built white guy really works well in 90% vanilla environments, but not in black ones. (I don’t think it works that well for white guys either, but can’t really speak on that)

I know from years of being out there next to these genetic freaks who are more “alpha” than the guys pushing the bullshit – that it’s not even close to being a silver bullet. In a black club, being 6’+ and in shape is par for the course. And most black guys can at least do the same ol two step.  A good looking black chick has her pick of black dudes like that.

Those athletic dudes actually clean up in white clubs because they’re selling Mandingo. (I’m not linking anything here, lol.  This is a family blog!) And that’s only if Big Black Buck know how to get past the security, and flex his muscles on the low at the chick but not at the dudes, and tap into a chick’s dark fantasies.  (I’d like some Frantz Fanon here, but not trying to lose y’all with too much stuff)

How do these chicks choose?

Black Chicks (or any girl that’s used to black clubs) end up fixating on these dudes faces. All the muscles in the world, chiseled jaw and all, can’t help a busted face.

What about the G’s?

I’m never surprised if some of these cats have a real rep in the streets either. I know I’ve bumped into the wrong dudes before. The idea that chicks like gangsters is a gross simplification of the dynamic. Corner boy don’t get Amber Rose, that’s for the kingpin, and only if the kingpin is sloppy.

It goes back to what women get off on.
They ain’t watching Brazzers, they’re reading 50 Shades.  They’re reading Zane. They’re not seeing, they’re envisioning. That’s why historically men lie and women use make up.

Each gender plays their strengths against the weakness of the other.

What’s a player to do?  I’m close to 6 feet, but I don’t have the physique of an athlete.

Yet, I’m in my 40’s and my last chick was a cute 23 year old.

It ain’t cause I have a six pack. Being six pack thin would not get me anything at an after work bar. They can’t see those muscles under a dress shirt.

I could always go direct.  There some girls that find my mug attractive right off.

Let’s call that the 10% – the green lights.

Then there are girls that if I came at them in anyway, they’d be NO.  The red lights, another 10%

That leaves the 80%.

The central idea of game is not that your personality and behavior can “compensate” for your lack of physical good looks.  Now, the idea is that your behavior makes you attractive.

You guys that go out and see the pretty boys, tall boys, meatheads talk to chicks – and see the eyes of the women go from ecstatic to bored – understand this intuitively.

Now these dudes have everything going for them looks wise, and they go in direct.  In a black club, sometimes the neanderthals will just put their paws on a chick and try to pull her close.  Whatever currency he had as a fit black man, he loses for being a gorilla.

So direct only gets you so far.  And it always puts the ball in the girl’s court.  She decides.

What happens if you approach a girl and just start talking to her.  You don’t ask for her name, for any information, to dance, to go with you, if she wants a drink – NONE OF THAT.  You just talk to her.

Is that indirect game?  That you basically b.s. with a chick, see if she likes you, and then ask for to dance, for her #, her name, to have your children?

No.  That’s delaying your direct approach.

Even if she gives you the silent greenlight to talk to her, and ask her something – something she’s likely to say yes to – she’s still in the driver’s seat.

The game hasn’t changed at all.

You need to change the game.

Let’s loop back the early 00’s. What the PUA guys discovered was that guys that were “naturally” good with women – got the women to chase them.  The man presented so much value to the chick IN THE INTERACTION that she wanted more from him.

The value?  Novelty.  She hasn’t dealt with a guy that’s interesting to her, but not interested in her.

So this was the indirect style.  The chick had to invest, had to prove herself to him, in order for him to validate her.

She might very well think as the dude steps up,

“I’m not interested in some 40 year old that’s not 6’3″…but I’ll entertain him because I’m bored”

He baits her, pushes her away, says they won’t work out, does things that are outrageous and before she knows it – she wants to talk to him.  All that stuff about his appearance washes away. She’s into him because he delivers the feelings.  The emotional roller coaster.

That’s indirect.  He’s attracting her in an indirect fashion.

So let’s recap

  1. Look Good and Ask the girl for something – Direct.  She still has the power
  2. Look Good and talk to a girl, wait for her to be in to you, and then ask her for something – Direct, She still has the power
  3. Look Good and talk to a girl, wait for her to be in to you, and push her away.  Make her ask you for something – Indirect. You have the power.  You’re calling the shots.

-Archie

 

11 thoughts on “Direct Game v Delayed Direct v Indirect”

  1. Yes Archie. Buy what about practitioners of direct game like McQueen? Goldmund? I don’t think they like to beat around the bush with indirect. Men who like and prefer this style or game. Are they doing themselves a disfavor in only practicing this type of game vwhen they can be more push pull with dem hoes?

    1. That’s an interesting point, and lemme try to breakdown a typical McQueen/Goldmund/soup type approach
      – these guys are generally high value in the objective sense.
      – they see what they want, and they go after it.
      – they have no problem expressing “general” sexual intent, specific sexual intent with the girl as part of the approach. And even though it can sound “rough” (i.e. not socially approved) – McQueen isn’t being a vulgar grabby frat boy. Far from it.
      – all 3 create value with the chick during the interaction
      – but as they’re leading the interaction – ALL OF THEM – are always judging whether a chick is actually worthy of their time and attention. They’ve internalized “indirect game” – because they’re coming at these chicks properly.

      A lot of their exploits, you can read as them judging the chick to be sexy, and then the conversation starts. You can sense when they get turned off by her words or her behavior. Not that she’s being fussy or indecisive – but chicks aren’t always worthy of the work that they’re going to put into it.

      When you realize that as you game, almost automatically there’s a change in body language, and a change in sub-communications.

      So those guys approach chicks, let the chicks know what’s up, and then THEY JUDGE the chick’s reaction.
      A regular dude approaches a chick, let’s her know what’s up, and then HOPES SHE’S DOWN WITH IT. So he gives her the decision making power.

      That’s the game shifting. McQueen would be McQueen at a bowling alley, getting his license renewed, cleaning out rain gutters. This is the realization of frame. He lives in his own reality, and people bend towards it. People really don’t give the guy enough credit.

      I’d say the big difference between what I advocate and what they advocate is they assume attraction.
      I don’t assume attraction, I generate a type of attraction, by consciously putting a chick into a validation cycle.

      But the practical result is the same. They assume attraction, suss out whether they want to spend time – but that posture puts a girl into a validation cycle. Where as I don’t assume attraction, I create something I want to create, and that puts a girl into the validation cycle.

      It’s subtle, but it’s important to understand what’s happening with veterans versus what happens with regular citizens.
      He judges women. He decides if they’re worthy of his time.

  2. “This is the realization of frame. He lives in his own reality, and people bend towards it. ”

    This. I’ve short cut this in the Platinum Rule principle. Now the Golden Rule is the Gold standard of the beta chode… Roughly do until others as you would ahve them do to you… You do the work and expect the rewards… Cause you know this is what you would do.

    But life is not like that.

    The Platinum Rule proposition is “Do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it.” When you start to live your life this way you automatically change your frame and MPO and force others intonreacting to you and what you are doing.

    Now… The problem is many guys are terrified of thinking of something they actually want to do… And then do it. No permissions sought, no risks mitigated.

  3. I’m taking notes, and notes here Archie.

    Tangential question: When/Why did PUA style game “die”?

    I dipped out from reading those guys somewhere in around ’05-’06, and when I popped back in it was Rollo, Roissy, and Roosh.

    I actually stumbled on Roissy first and was like “WTF is this nonsense?”

    Has game “evolved” that much? Or will Ross Jeffries, and Mystery still cut it if you give it a fresh coat of paint?

    Enlightening and intriguing as always WIA.

    1. Bruh…that’s a long topic.

      In terms of straight up, how do I meet a woman and make a connection – the game will never change.
      Most of the stuff that Ovid, Don Juan, and Ross Jeffries talked about – the principles work – but the language needs to be updated.

      That camp you refer to has always needed more than “how to talk to women”. They want to turn back the clock on everything. It starts with Feminism but it doesn’t stop there. Their insight was basically that Game was a response to a sick society. Guess which part is easier to talk about from a Guru perspective but also from a audience perspective? Game or a Sick Society?

      As for the evolution of game in practice, you got
      – NLP (ross)
      – scripts/lines/openers (Mystery)
      – theory of attraction and group theory (Mys)
      – being authentic/natural (Tyler)
      – inner game (Tyler)
      – having a structure (Everyone)
      – Improving your diet, clothes, muscles, bankroll (Recent)
      – using modern tools like Instagram (Now) – which is essentially how to use technology to do Mys’s group theory better.

      – I’d say Luke, Madison, Tyler, Julien, and YaReally are all up on the contemporary stuff – despite all of them having vastly different styles.

      For the most part, everything “modern” seems to be a no brainer, and it would be weird to think that old school PUA didn’t find it to be useful.

      The old stuff – I say this/I do this to get a particular emotional reaction – to me, that’s always the useful stuff. You understand people, you can run game at wedding, funeral, boardroom meeting, client presentation, grocery aisle, fast food line…

      1. “Guess which is easier to talk about?”

        Haha! Wow, I can’t believe I didn’t connect those two dots before you wrote them. Hell, even I could write a “red pill gripes” blog.

        I do feel like those guys, or the wider “red pill” ideas have given men another useful filter or tool to pursue the rest of their lives, but once you “get it” it’s best not to dwell too long. Just take it in, and make it useful.

        I started reading the old FastSeduction.com’s archives of the even older Alt.Seduction.Fast archives back in like ’02. Like a lot of dudes I probably didn’t give it too much credit, but kept reading anyway. Between ’03-’04 I absolutely got my teeth kicked in by one girl or another and by ’05 I don’t think I was reading much of any Game related material. I was very blue pill and thought I was above having to learn Game. Y’know, ‘cos I’m so pretty lol. By ’09 or so I had a brand new attitude, started actually trying out some of the things I’d learned and when I eventually decided to learn some more I found things about as they are now.

        I think a lot of the old school PUA guys like Mystery or Strauss either had a “blue pill” outlook or in Strauss’ case couched their writings in that type of thinking to broaden their appeal and blunt social criticisms. One could write an entire article about the duplicitousness of Neil Strauss. Game as a “quest for a unicorn” or some such.

        Good stuff as always WIA.

        1. They still are pretty blue pill. Tyler said something about Rollo’s Rational Male. I’m sure i’ve said it here before.
          “He is right about women, BUT I know that my life is better when I have a woman in my life”
          Louis CK jokes about when a woman goes out with a guy, she’s dating the equivalent of a Lion/Bear..’maybe this one is okay”

          But often times, the situation is reversed. A chick breaks up with a dude, and dude is DONE.
          Looking back on my break ups – I was out of the game, my world having been rocked, unable to do what I know I was capable of.
          Every chick I’ve ever been out with had a new dude within a few weeks, if not days, if not the next day, (if not the day before!!!)

          So chicks can do some real damage to us in ways that are not obvious. It’s not even that she’s going to take half your money – it’s that she can kill your spirit.

          But pay no attention to me, I’m just some AI Bot on the internet…

          1. No worries Archie, we’re all just 1’s and 0’s down here anymore.

            The other thing you high lighted, I thought I was way too indirect but in reality I’ve been “delayed direct” all along. Excellent distinction.

            The last time I had my spirit crushed by a chick was my “red pill” moment, kicked me up off the couch and out of depression and spurred me to start using all the stuff I’d been reading about. Took that one last hit to the solar plexus to kick me over the edge and then the Dunning Kruger Effect kicked in and I amassed more notches in a year than the previous decades combined. Tapered off a bit, but so it goes.

  4. Viscerally enlightening breakdown in this post and follow-up comments. Harmonizes with my own experiences and observations. Notably (for me):

    – the Black/White breakdowns [literally and scene-wise abstractly] how to feel “where you fit in” as objectively as is natural

    – the WIA mindset Comparison to McQ/Gold/soup [all prolific commenters before all else] ; the subtle difference of what creates the “cycle” — first time I’ve thought of It that way

    Writing from a comfy perch atop the apex of a months-long Nice Thing — wondering if it’s time to Short. This wonderful post sparked some latent instincts.

    At the same time — the “cycle” of keeping her chasing continues long into the relationship. Lots of thoughts there but I’m already off the stream. It becomes effortless with the right circumstances/sensibilities/filter/expectations.

    1. The game thing is deep. The reason I like McQueen and Co – is that they practice what I called “Character Based Game”. A whole lot of what they’re doing is internalized to such an extent that the game flows through everything they do.

      The weakness to the type of game that I typically talk about – is that it requires constant calculation. But to bring back the slider/equalizer metaphor – it’s matters of degrees to all of this, as well as what you want out of it.

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