Independent Women

Archie – So what do you bring to the table…
*chick interjects*
Chick – I’ve got a degree, a job, my own place, my own car…

Archie – Lemme finish, what do you bring to the table that *I* want?

This question is different.  What I want is not what she deems valuable.  So  what does the average man thinks is valuable?

From a Old G’s perspective, some of the Independent Woman’s criteria is actually useful

  • She has her own place – easy to slide in and out.  She’s not always in your hair, or looking for the upgrade
  • She has her own car – don’t have to always pick her up.
  • She has her own money – no coming out the pocket.

Well a player doesn’t.  most regular dudes end up paying for most everything.  Now a Pimp?  From what I hear *grins* gets the girl to finance her own romance…

What about education?

In some cases a girl’s educational skills can assist you.  If you have a business and she’s an accountant…  Far and Few between.

The real benefit to a chick having a college education is that you don’t want your children raised by a dummy.  Not that you’re trying to have kids when you first meet a chick – but many a dude has been knocked out the game by a knocking up a chick that can barely fill out her 1040.

These are some generic ones.  The traditional feminine arts, like caring, nurturing, nursing, cleaning, cooking, decoration, money and household management – modern technology and society have done damage to these things.  I’m of the age where i’ve had a chick fix a hem in my trousers. (This was the 90’s).  I don’t think basic sewing skills is as widespread as it used to be.

You do have to ask yourself, what do you value in a chick.

The face and the body are given.  A style that can be sexy but can switch to modest is also a given.   Bedroom skills, given.

What else are you after?  That’s some soul searching.

As a caveat – take it from my experience – whatever your hobby is – you don’t necessarily want your love interest involved with that.  Maybe you’re a big comic book fan.

This may seem appealing to you, until you start to understand the work that goes into it, but the sort of attention that your chick is going to get.  if you’ve ever dated a dancer (and I’m not talking tap) – aside from the unwanted male attention, the drudgery of her daily beauty routine will affect you.

On the personal, I like a girl who likes to try new things.  So I try to structure my interactions around novelty.  If she turns her nose up at checking out the Kenyan restaurant – I’m not particularly interested in hearing anything else from her.

So now that you have standards, how do you use this in the game?

Part 2 The Framework

Anytime I’ve said this type of thing to a chick – suggest that her face and body are not enough – She immediately gets flustered.  And as chicks tend to do, she tries to turn it around on me. Because once her pride has been wounded, it’s not about conversation and communication, but about winning.

Point this out – that she’s just trying to one up you instead of trying to connect –  and watch her demoralize even more.

Mystery made this a part of his provocation.

“Beauty is common, what else do you have go l going on other than your looks”

He’d say this early as part of his fake qualification routine, and she’d reply with some typical nonsense. She was then qualifying to him.  And when one person qualifies their worth to someone else – that’s submission.  And the act of qualifying is about seeking approval.  That’s what we want in the validation cycle.

But this is one of those white/black divide cultural things where a white guy is “impressed” by a white girl’s credentials. Often when you see the mainstream pua guys mention these things in their lay reports – they really don’t care what the chick says.  It’s just a part of the dance, where she knows that in order to pull a high level guy – she has to be high level herself.

Her resume reply, the white pua accepts her bullshit answer, and she feels validated when his initial question pushed her away before.

Part 3 Culture

As black dudes, we’ve had to deal with this “independent woman” bullshit since at least Destiny’s Child. Not just as a social phenomenon, but as a tired “line” within the back and forth.

So where a white guy just sorta let’s that shit go and gets the lay, this black dude is triggered! I swear, “I’m like Sweetie you need to come original, just like I have..”

So in practice, if you’ve opened the chick and you’re starting to get into real negotiations –

  • Have something that you actually value
  • Keep your cool
  • Withhold validation, until you actually have a reason to validate her.



Adapted from a comment that the homey Intro made on the thread.

…There are guys like that too. Who have the pathological need to take a broken chick and take care of her. …. But for a woman it’s definitely an important quality.

I forget the full context of the statement – but this really stuck out to me as something to be discussed.

Not in the context of what’s wrong with other guys – but rather on how  a man goes de-programming himself from harmful patterns that instilled in him as child.

Given what we know now (or at least suspect) about women – It’s easy to knock these dudes.  They just want to save these chicks from themselves.  How did they come to these behaviors? Who told them to do that?

  • Their mothers
  • Society
  • School
  • Religion
  • Culture
  • Media

Unless they ran into a dude like me, WHO HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY, or they had access to good game material – saving a chick that’s going in the wrong direction is what they’re going to do.

It’s not only important to have empathy and compassion for the next man, it’s helpful in determining what changes a young player needs to make in his own life.

Some guys are born into the game.
They have bad mothers and they learn not to deify women.  A lot of the famous pimps in history/literature have had mothers that left good men to be with bad men, or manipulated good men in order to get something out of them.  That type of behavior can turn a man’s heart cold.

Now, not every guy with a bad mom learns that.
Oftentimes boys with bad parents, try much harder to please these wayward parents.   It’s the same cycle of abuse with bad relationships.  The “good” person in the relationship will change his own behavior so that the “bad” person will either like them and change her behavior.

The troubling aspect of the game is that a lot of the women we find physically attractive also show this poor behavior. Indeed, when you take looks out of the equation – even a regular chick has some of these traits built into her.  The difference between the average guy and the new player is that the New Player no longer tries to submit to make the girl come around.

Now if a guy wasn’t exposed to these sorts of things, he has to learn game.

But most guys aren’t ever exposed.  What’s worse is that nost guys have no curiosity, no imagination about that stuff.

Taking care of these broken “angels” is just what you do.  You take care of your woman. As natural as gravity.  You be nice. You care for her.

Except that in the game, we’ve all learned that this is the sure fire way to lose the chick.  You don’t treat a chick a the way you want to be treated, the way she ought to be treated, the way she SAYS she wants to be treated – but you treat her in such a way that she RESPONDS TO.

Often what people respond to, is not what society says is right or what they say for themselves.  Passing up on a chick that is good for you, a chick that is good for you, for a chick that’s no good.  The no good broad has something that makes you RESPOND.  You justify whatever you do after the fact.

The closest most guys ever come to understanding the dual nature of a woman is when they see asshole jocks/rich guys  get what they want from women.  But as normal guys do, they tie the change in the woman’s behavior to some other visually identifiable trait of the male.

They see the “poor” behavior, but they think that women find those men attractive regardless of the behavior.

Maybe the regular guy goes one level up, and starts acting like a jerk to attract chicks.  That only takes them so far – because they don’t understand why the
behavior is attractive.

Once you get to the root of it – that behavior is what attracts women – that opens doors.  You start to see.

I can do whatever style of game I want – because what’s ultimately attractive to the chick is this power I have over her to make her react.

No regular guy will ever see that.   Maybe if he gets into sales or leadership. Even then he doesn’t realize what he’s actually doing.

So the takeaways here

  • It’s “natural” to want to save a chick
  • It’s only “natural” because you’ve been programmed that way
  • Deprogram yourself by taking changing your behavior towards women
  • Instead of doing things that you think are right, that society says, that she says – focus your attention on things that make her respond


I coulda told you that

What the Germans are studying..

Not paying attention to most of it, but the key thing here

“Improvements in gender equality and sexual education…have not helped women become more orgasmic”

They’re basically looking at the whole problem wrong.


Pimp or Simp

The homey soup dropped a thread over at McQueens.

So let’s lay out the facts.

  1. They meet on Bumble – Minus
  2. He proposes Pizza and a movie – Minus
  3. She agrees – Plus
  4. She drives – Minus
  5. He drives her Car – Plus
  6. At the movies she starts to use her phone – Minus
  7. He asks her to take it outside – ?
  8. She leaves – Minus
  9. He ask her to pay – ?
  10. He harasses her friends and family – Minus
  11. He sues her in court – ?
  12. Story goes viral – ?
  13. She pays him to end the madness -?

His version of the story is essentially that it was a date from hell.  Her version is basically the same.

He sues her because he stands on principle.  A bunch of social do gooders offer to pay him the 17.31.  Why?  I don’t know?  Some of them are movie theaters – and if there’s one thing movie theaters hate – IT’S PEOPLE USING THEIR DAMN PHONES IN THE MOVIE.

I’ve got a lot of question marks, cause I think some of these actions can go either way.

Now for you guys new to the game – let’s do a quick recap on internet dates.

We, the Players of the Milky Way, prefer to not meet women online as a primary source of contact.  There’s nothing wrong with it, per se, but meeting a girl in person, whatever style you prefer, will give you the right feedback to invite her home for a prayer session.

Internet dating in general, but Bumble is where the girl picks the guy.

*puts on pimp hat*

Now you can see the video.  For guys without game, he knocked it out of the park. She’s way prettier than he is attractive.  If you listen to dude’s voice…well he REALLY KILLED IT.  Aside from her being comfortably in her 30’s, this chick is still way above him.  Jah Almighty.

In any event – she had to dig whatever he was selling to pick him, and then agree to the date.  THEN SHE DRIVES TO GET HIM.  Then she lets him drive her car, the thing that she pays for.  The car that doesn’t have his name on the insurance bill.

So from a game perspective – she’s investing in him, she’s reacting to him.  It really should have been easy as hell from there to make that connection if 1) he had a plan, or 2) he had game.

But something happened after he drove her, fed her, and then got her into the movies.

Now based on his pouch demeanor, I’m guessing the #’s stopped adding up for her. Throw in the voice, and it was basically an attraction killer.

But the game lessons here, for the front end, are that this chick who could date better

  1. Would date him
  2. Would accommodate him
  3. Would let him drive her car


Telling her to chill with the texting was the moment of truth though.  I got to give the man props for telling a woman to stop doing something that is annoying him – instead of just suffering through it, or leaving.

But it’s not clear to me whether he had her respect to that level coming in to it.

So everything that follows after that is straight simping.    Calling for the $, getting her friends involved, filing the lawsuit.


Simp, not Pimp.



Orthogonal is the word of the day.   Instead of coming at a problem straight ahead, you come at from a right angle.

Here in the Northern Hemisphere it’s getting warm.

My people have been doing this since September

So now it’s time to drop this look

And switch to something more “seasonally appropriate”

I usually go to hip hop/urban spots. So it’s a lot of guys that compete on a visual level.

These are typical dudes at the places I frequent.

Off rip?  I would need to be reborn to attain this type of size.  It’s not happening without surgery, drugs, and cybernetic parts from Chiba, Japan. (Word to Gibson)

These guys – they compete straight up

  • Tallest
  • Most muscle
  • Most ice, bottles, gold, labels
  • Best dancer

Yadda, yadda, yadda

If you’ve seen a rap video, well everyone else has too.  And that’s where they get their ideas about how to attract women. It’s learned via observation.  The guys in the rap videos (and at the clubs) attract women by all of the above.

Overall, this sort of features based attraction is a female strategy.

Now keep in mind, a lot of game is using typical female strategy against the girl.  Much like Wing Chun – the martial arts – was developed by a woman – but is deadly in the hands of anyone – game is about using your particular strengths in new ways.

Instead of coming at the chick straight on, by appealing to her visual cortex – you come at her from a right angle.  Orthogonal.

Let’s delve a bit deeper into her game plan.

She depends on her visual appeal to do most of the work.  And there’s a Matthew/Matthia effect with attractive women.  As I’ve often noticed, If I see a girl with really great hair from behind, chances are she’s at least cute in the face. Though sometimes, she’s good from afar, but on the close up – she’s far from good.

The cute chicks, the fine chicks – every thing you can see on her – she works on.  Her skin, eyes, hair, nails, style, purse, jewelry, accessories.   Most of the time it’s overkill.

She puts on a body contouring dress like this one – she doesn’t even need to do her make up.

Teacher Bae.

But as you can tell, she does anyway.  Everything about this picture is about drawing the eye.  There’s not one angle you could take of this chick and not find something attractive.

She does this because male behavior is visually driven.  Much more so than women.

But girls consume with their eyes too, but the static qualities above aren’t the only thing the consciously assess. This is level one.

She sees these dudes at a club


And she’s many are going to want this dude to holler. (Manly one on side, pretty boy on the other)

But that’s not enough for these chicks.  The higher up in attractiveness you get – the more likely the chick has met guys like these.   The high school girls go crazy, not so much the ones that we’re after.  She’s used to it.  This is her norm.  This bores her.

They look at body language of the guy and how he interacts with people and they can tell who’s sure of himself. Sometimes they’ll verbalize those things. “Look at the way he’s standing” That’s the second level.

The next level is when she interacts with you. Your look and your observed behavior should match up. If you’re a tall, good looking , well dressed guy, and you have the mannerisms of a boss with other people that she sees, she is expecting that from you. And when you interact you can only do three things

Confirm her expectation
Disconfirm it


Defy it

Game is this third option. It’s not playing by her expectations at all. It’s taking her left, in a way that’s pleasurable because it’s new.

So in my urban environment, where you’ve got rappers,, ballers, dealers, dancers, etc – I can’t compete head to head with those guys.

I’m 5’10” and in my 40’s. Getting taller is not in the picture. Getting jacked is probably a two to three year commitment. The flexibility ain’t where it was, so a lot of these attention getting dance moves are not in the cards. Though I got a few minor stacks, I got pussy easier in the Civic than in the 5 series.

So I have to come at chicks from the flank, with guile,

ORTHOGONAL – coming at her from a right angle

And that’s what they don’t expect. And that’s why they respond to me.

Guys don’t make eye contact, approach, lean in, pull back, and mess with a chick’s feelings right off the bat. Not a guy that looks like me.

I don’t have the look.
I may or may not have the body language.
A girl might expect me to be one way.

But when i start interacting with her, all of her preconceptions should come down. She starts over. It’s a new and novel experience. And ideally it’s happening on a nonverbal level.

So eye contact, then go hard and pull off like nothing, leaving a void arguably, that’s something i do that worked for me.

So why don’t guys think like this.  Why do guys always come at chicks head on?

This dude is the role model.

Game is for the Angry and The Indifferent

[Ed. Clearing out 35 or so unfinished posts.  This particular post came out of a discussion about whether game is for girls that like you or girls that are mean or indifferent. Is game for girls that instantly hate you, or don’t acknowledge your existence.  I think the actual question is more complicated, more nuanced – but I think that of all of these questions.]

Caring is Creepy

So you step up to a chick, respectfully, but definitely with your game tight.  And she like doesn’t want to hear it.

What’s up with that?

The truth is, most women do not want to meet anyone new (check out her Social Media – she already has plenty of “friends”)

Unless he ticks off the socially approved boxes or hits her invisible Achilles Heels (size 7) – she’s not that interested in some random guy.

How does she want?

She wants to meet someone that she’s been lusting after that’s ALREADY in her social circle. (A celebrity is also a good answer here. )

  • Guy at work
  • Guy in class
  • Her pastor
  • Her Yoga trainer
  • Guy in her corresponding fraternity to her sorority


Because he’s vetted.  She “knows” what he’s about.  A known quantity helps with her long term interests, but she’s probably had a chance to wonder “if” and fantasize about him.

The other thing about preferring guys in her social circle is that other girls (that she knows and respect/hate) want him. Thus she wants him partly because they want him.  But she also wants to be better than “all those other bitches”.  The Preacher’s Wife Dynamic.

“He chose me, and I rule all of you bitches through him.”

I’ve said this before, a lot of the social circle game isn’t about her personal pleasure, but causing pain to others.  Real pain sometimes, but more often imagined.  Or perhaps I’ve dated too many hot chicks who like to lord it over (or is that lady?) others.

I recently was chatting with a chick and talking about fashion, style and make up.  [Because that’s the kind of conversation I have with a chick who’s all looks]  She was saying that she was gonna pay someone to “do her eyes”.

The chick was cute or whatever, but then I asked her this.

Archie – “So you’re gonna spend 50 bucks for a professional to do your makeup for 1 event, right?

So what’s your return on investment?”

Thinking to myself some breast implants or some butt shots literally pay for themselves.  Most guys are more willing to spend on a chick if her body is RIGHT. What could she possibly get monetarily from being able to bat her full eyelashes at some dude.

“I get to slay”

Slay?  Da fuck?  I get to look good, and feel like I look better than everyone else.  All Eyez on Me

Think about that. That’s what you’re dealing with.  To understand the “slay” mentality, you have to realize in her world – we (men) aren’t really that important.  What is important is her social standing with WOMEN.  Men? Who cares?

Because for an attractive woman, IT SEEMS like she can have a man/boyfriend at any point in her life.  It’s as complicated as opening Facebook.

Now the actual reality of finding a guy that meets her conscious criteria as well as the guy who knows how to meet her unconscious criteria is an entirely different issue – one that she doesn’t think about.

She just wants to slay.

She wants to “slay” because she’s in some sort of existential competition with other women, AND with an image in her mind.  Indeed, it’s less and less about the other women for most part – and more about this internal feeling.

With this self-centered/ego-centric  “slay mentality in mind” – where we are mere pawns in her game, where she’s striving for this unreachable goal – how do we adapt?


Game isn’t for the chick that is digging you and your look and feels good around you…. (See how I brought this back to the topic.  I let you understand a bit of the mentality of these chicks, and we use that to work on philosophy, then strategy, and finally tactics)

The short game is 3 basic phases.

Phase 1 – Getting her attention and actively doing something that attracts her to you

Phase 2 – Building trust, comfort, and rapport – because at this point, she’s in to your look, what you have to say, and probably 2 of 10 in terms of ready for “romance”.

Phase 3 – Is when you’re back at your place, and she’s ready to read the Bible.

The real juice is between getting her attention and putting her in a position where she’s seeking your approval and validation.  That’s the whole point of this blog, so i’ll only mention it once in this post.

So the question often is, when I step up to a chick – and before I get a word out, I can tell by her body language, that she wanted me to talk to her – do I have to do all this “stuff”?

Or more succinctly,

If she looks like she’s in to me,do I need to use game? 

And by game, most guys getting into this, think special openers, gimmicks, going direct..yadda yadda yadda.  For us vets, game is not just a way of life, we’ve fully internalized the principles to the point where we don’t think about it.

But to guys starting to wrap their heads around this thing, It’s an honest and open question.

So the answer is – Not really.

Phase 1 – The “Attention and Attraction” phase of Game is PRIMARILY for chicks that are rude to you, mean, or worse yet INDIFFERENT.

Before you can get her to share a hot fudge sundae with you, she’s has to be aware that you’re around – that means getting her attention.  And after you break into her mind space (because sure as shit wasn’t thinking about YOU – neck roll) – now you have to get a somewhat hostile stranger to be less hostile and open to communicating.

But if a girl is feeling you from jump, instead of going heavy with the attention and ice breaking – you make her invest.  I’ve said it before, having game is not playing games.

Let’s set the stage

  • I’m at a happy hour/martini lounge
  • It’s not too loud
  • Alcohol is flowing
  • Girls are sitting with their friends, standing by the bar
  • Chatting amongst themselves
  • Some folks on the phone

So I roll up on a solo chick with a phone in her face, eyes lit up by the LED.

  • I say “Hey” –  which grabs her attention
  • Attempt to open the conversation with a jokey cold read – “You’re doing one of two things, Pokemon Go or Tinder”

The reaction I’m looking for is 1) acknowledgment, 2) then somewhat of a smile, 3) a melting of the ice a bit. 4) her to say something that say she wants to play.

What often happens instead.

  • Glance up at me
  • Look back down at her phone
  • No more acknowledgement
  • Ignores me until I walk away.

Happens all the time to top players.
A chick’s first line of defense is to pretend you aren’t there.
Especially if you don’t have the look of a guy that she wants.

So what do I do?

I say Hey, AGAIN. And then I launch into a story – basically whatever happened to me that day that I thought was interesting, and that she could comment on and take part in.

If you make it a general practice to explain your day in the most humorous and interesting way possible you can turn a trip to the drug store into an adventure.

Why do I do this? Because attention getting and attraction building stuff is for chicks that are indifferent or hostile.  All the stuff you’ve read from 90’s till now isn’t stuff developed for girls that like the way you look and your vibe.  It’s for chicks that wish you were Jessie Williams.

Now how do I know to keep going?  Why don’t I stop?

I know that most of the time, these chicks aren’t going to swing at the first pitch. And I’m okay with her not being into me from minute 1.

I don’t want to use the “P” words – persistence/perseverance, but my actions move in that direction. I believe in myself. And I also know that it takes people a second to warm up.

Having seen guys with better game than me, I’ve noticed that they get their best results by staying in what I thought were “impossible” situations.

  • Super negative/name calling feedback
  • Being completely ignored, being indifferent.

Watching this stuff go down with a vet, my social cues sensor was like – YO, THIS IS GETTING MAD AWKWARD.  Pull up player, you bout to hit a Mountain of No.

Until it turns itself around.

Now these guys were never to the point of it being autistic. A real player has the verbal chops and he’s just lightly hammering at a chick until she gives him feedback (positive or negative).

That covers the indifferent, what about the negative?

If you argue with your girlfriend, there are times that she’s so mad, that it becomes comical. You can switch that anger to laughter. So negative feedback is one of those things that are good.

So let’s recap.

“Game” – i.e. all those openers, attention getters, routines are for the angry and indifferent.  If a chick is feeling you from jump – the game you use there is to get her to invest, which we’ve talked about previously.

When met with indifference – you keep going.

When met with anger – you find it amusing – and then convert it to laughter with the chick.

Hmm, makes me think I need to write more on the mechanics of both.


Pattern Interrupt

I just read this about our new robot overlords.

” In young infants, language builds on basic abilities like perceiving the world visually and physically, acting on motor systems, and understanding other peoples’ goals

Beyond compiling pure data input, the mind filters, assimilates, and joins new information to memory to create and break patterns, as well as processing information through emotional and social filters.”

Why bring this up at all?  A key to a lot of the game is understanding the motivation and goals of the people around us.  This is where picking up women extends to control over the universe.  If you can discern what is on someone else’s mind by observing their actions, you can stimulate them in that way – and obtain results for yourself.

A lot of The Game is replacing the ideas that you think you understand any given woman’s goals by her actions.   Her actions, typically if you want her, do not really line up with the goals that YOU THINK SHE HAS.  Indeed, her actions don’t often line up with the goals SHE THINKS SHE HAS.   There is logic to what she does – if you understand what her goals are.

Brief Aside – This idea of “logic” also reflects on us Men. Chicks find us as baffling as we find them.  Topic for another time.  The teaser is that we do things to try to get “sex” from her that make no sense to her at all.   Further, there is a layer here where men/individuals have short and long term goals, both conscious and unconscious – that we are trying to align to achieve particular ends.  This may be the ultimate goal of game – to set all of your resources to accomplishment.

So let’s consider this scenario. Guy meets very hot chick on Bumble. Chick says coffee shop date only.

Keep in mind – A chump folds when these cards are dealt. The player plays the other players, not the cards.

Enumerating it..

  1. The protagonist  went on the coffee date (against his gut feeling)
  2. He goes to the coffee shop and intends to do a walkabout date.
  3. But the chick has a “policy” to only go where people are.

Guy agrees, but is planning to turn it into a walkabout date. (Which is the strategy to use, with some caveats. Her behavior stems from earlier bad experiences, so trust must be rapidly developed)

So when he gets there, he attempts to venue change to nearby retail, and chick has a nonsensical policy about not going to places where people aren’t.

She of course doesn’t know her own psychology as most people don’t.

What they think and say they want is not what they actually respond to.

Because of her issues she ruins her own chance at happiness. She’s basically trapped in her frame, like a child scared of the dark but unwilling to use a nightlight. (In my mind the girl needs therapy.)

If you are into frames

– She chose him
– She chose the activity
– She chose to limit the action to the coffee shop

She basically constructed the reality and then used the environment and her will to stop the dude from progressing.  As a defensive move, this is quite smart – and plenty of girls will pat themselves on the back for screening in this way.

The obvious move here for intermediate to advanced players is to bring the “walk” to the coffee shop.  It doesn’t matter if she tries to limit the movement (the ability to get both trust through movement and isolation) – you can use the environment of a coffee shop to your advantage.   That means using group theory and merging sets.  Creating the atmosphere by using third parties to your advantage.

But our guy faces the typical situation.  The chick who’s all business, has a very boring Q & A conversation. We can only imagine the sub-communications between the two.  For you guys keeping score, this horrible environment is actually ideal for you work out guys.  If you can show off your physique in a tasteful way – that should be unnerving to a chick.

For my verbal guys, this is a straight up disqualification time.  “We’re totally not right for each other. *wait for reaction*…build on it”

So going back to the theme of today – of interpreting a chick’s actions to understand her goals.  Why did she set this situation up this way?

She’s gotten him to basically agree to her frame, a frame to protect her.  But that frame also to confines her.

If she did not think he was physically and therefore sexually attractive – he would not have gotten the coffee date in the first place.   But the environment is such that the only way for a guy to surmount her defenses (in her mind at least) is to be such an engaging personality that she loses sense of the world.   This is of course the ultimate goal of every player that focuses on the verbal game.  You almost want your speech to be hypnotic.

Objectively, what is the likelihood that she’s going to meet the Devil in a sportscoat with a pocket square, and get him to reveal his wickedness in a 15 minute conversation over Americano?

She’s wasting her time, even though she doesn’t realize it.  And women have a short time frame to truly operate.  That’s not patriarchy, that’s biology.

When you meet coffee date girl – Part of me wonders how much of her behavior was clinical or idiosyncratic and how much of this is in the realm of normal behavior?  Normal for girls at least.

The girl might be a one off, but the mathematician in me feels like there are particular solutions. This is the tool that you order from Snap On, because they’re the only ones that make it.

What was her goal here?
What did she expect to happen?

Subconsciously she expected magic. She would show up, do nothing, actively work against whatever he was doing AND he’d somehow manage to fix her.

This reminds me of the old chestnut about psychologists and sociopaths.

If a patient says that they’ve seen other doctors, the others haven’t helped, but you seem special.

This is how this situation reads.

This post is a bit sprawling, but the key ideas

  1. As humans, from the very beginning, we learn how to interpret the thoughts of others through their actions
  2. Game teaches us that our pre-game social programming is very bad at helping us puzzle out a girl’s thoughts and motivations through her actions
  3. When a chick limits her own freedom here – the key is not to try and knock on the front door – so to speak.
  4. She set up the situation to dislike you (thinking it’s neutral)- because she doesn’t understand herself or men
  5. The options are here are to communicate on the level where she really is. Be it with your look, with your sub-communications, or using group game to gain leverage through third parties


Hypnosis and Game

Debeguiled made a good comment on the last blog .   This is a bit of theory of technique/history of game type of post.   But he made the correct observation that clinical hypnosis tries to achieve the same sort of thing that verbal one-on-one game is going for…sorta.

The idea behind hypnosis is to use language, setting, and ritual to get a patient into a state that is conducive to suggestion.   “You’re getting very sleepy.  Now cluck like a chicken!”

In the game, the sequence is after you meet the chick, you run your attraction material (heavy on disqualifying yourself, heavy on disqualifying her, very much getting her to chase you – or in woman speak – flirting) – then she’s invested and wants to figure out what makes you so different.  You hook her on the conversation, you hook her on the randomness and her inability to pin you down, and then you up the ante and make her do more and more sexual things, in order to get more compliance.

So in essence and in practice, she’s suggestible.

Now in our sequence, after getting her into a cycle of seeking our attention and validation – we switch to trust.  (in Mystery model, attraction -> comfort).

The game is basically won in comfort with a skeptical girl.  You can troll a girl all night and get her to want your validation – but she has to trust you after she’s figured out that your personality is sexually appealing.  So not even the “sweet talker” phase, or the “Lot of Laughs” Lamar – but this guy isn’t a psycho type thing.

So the trust moves

  • Break the touch barrier
  • Stop touching her before she wants you to stop
  • Meet her friends
  • Introduce her to your friends
  • Interact with 3rd parties
  • Move her around the venue
  • Stop for a pint of ice cream on the way back to your place, and let her see you talk to staff

You’re a normal guy, I will be safe now and still get to have fun.

Verbally, you’ve got the chick on the couch, she’s attracted, she’s interested – but one of the issues a guy faces is that – she may be attracted, she wants to talk, she’s okay with touch, she’s touching him – but that doesn’t mean they’re going to end up back at his place.   Them boys @ RSD describe this situation is the “sexual hook point”.  Where she’s participating.

But since we’ve been doing this from a different perspective – this is where the pimp game says that you sell her the dream, you put her in a bubble, just me and you, just the two of us.


So Debeguiled made the point that putting her in the bubble, getting that level of trust – we’re she thinks of not just her, but as “we”, – that’s approaching the a hypnotic trance.

And the history of PUA online starts in Ericksonian hypnosis, NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) – and basically ways to get people to do things on a subconscious level through. 1) word, 2) setting/environmental engineering, 3) ritual.   When you look back at even the Mystery Method, his end game sequence involves getting the girl to light candles…  It’s not because Mystery is a romantic, but it’s part of a ritual.  And when she puts up resistance, he breaks the spell by blowing out the light.  It’s symbolic – but works on deeper levels.

So yes, I think Debeguiled is right – there’s something to adding elements from hypnosis to your game.  I think the best place is not during the attraction, but during the trust stage.


Re: Constructing The Swipe Opener

[Ed. This a post that I didn’t finish from last year (got about 35)]

Every sentence I write makes me think about you, the reader.

What do  you need to know to come to the same conclusion that I do?

So I have to keep digging deeper to find examples that will click in your mind.

But that’s game.  I’m trying to communicate, express myself, and persuade.  I know from experience (and from work, lol), that breaking down an argument logically is one of the least effective ways to put somebody on your side.

In my process of writing a small game “pamphlet” for you guys to use is the same thing that goes on when you build an opener.

So in the last few weeks, I’ve come across someone else’s opener and modified it, and then also taken my reaction to someone else’s story and turn that into an opener.

The Swipe

I straight jacked this from a guy giving day game coaching sessions, and modified it to what I know about a girl’s social reality.

So a guy is at the mall, he’s walking through courtyard.  He sees a girl he likes.


Now analyzing the reasoning behind the steps.

Step #2 – You have to come at a girl head to head to do this. (that is facing her) Coming from the side or from behind is startling to a girl.  Remember you’re bigger and stronger, and she’s been fed all of this negative information about strange men.

When I devise an opener, I put myself in the girl’s shoes.  If I approach her – what can happen?  What will she be thinking?  In a negative light, and in a positive light?

Step #4 – Why doesn’t the guy say Hello, Hi, or Hey?

The guy doesn’t introduce himself, because that triggers a scripted response.  She goes on autopilot.

We want to stop the girl from going on autopilot and giving us default answers.  When you say “Hi” – she knows what to do to shut you down.  It’s not even conscious.  She’s “triggered”.  She goes on autopilot, the same way you go out autopilot when some dude on the street tries to sell you a mixtape.  (Odd how women respond to similar stimuli just like men)

Step #8 – He doesn’t explain, he lets it dawn on her.

This is what “opens” the chick.

So recap

  1. Put yourself in her shoes when it comes to the approach.
  2. Put yourself in her mind when it comes to what she thinks about, and how she thinks about it – when it comes to the content of what you’re going to say.
  3. Does it show mastery of her world?