So you meet a chick, you’re trying to make the connection, and in the meantime she starts talking about the lame dudes that she’s messed with.
What do you do?
This was the problem on the forum.
This is something I’ve faced when I’m at a venue and aiming to get into a girl’s good graces, but also after I’ve gotten into the good graces and we’re on our way out.
The instance of the forum happens in the electronic context – but the issues are very much the same.
On the forum
- Boy matches with girl on dating site.
- Initial conversation ensues over text and messaging apps.
- The conversation turns to sex
- Girl complains about some two minute man.
For a lot of guys, this is a problem.
“I’m trying to talk to you, but you’re talking about someone else.”
What does a guy do? Let’s break this down into 3 guys.
- Square – The guy who’s never heard of game.
- Young Gun – The guy who’s new to the game, a little bit of experience, intermediate with the game.
- The Veteran – Not only has the veteran internalized the game, he understands the idea behind the responses.
What does the Square do?
- Because his manhood is threatened, because his chances are threatened – he aims to shut the girl down asap. He wants to dictate what kind of topics she can talk to him about.
- Say nothing in the moment, but ruminate on why the girl “disrespected” him.
- Go along with it.
- Make a joke about it and change the subject
What does the Young Gun Do?
- First, he assigns a malicious motive to the chick, and thinks that she’s trying to test him
- Then he uses one of the patented 5 responses to a test
- Mishear and purposefully misinterpret
- Blame Her
- Try to body language/sub-communicate silence
- Agree and Amplify
- Restart with more attraction material
In both cases, the Square and the Young Gun – both go with solutions before they understand the nature of the problem. They get this stimulus, and now they must respond. They are reacting, not acting.
So What’s the Problem?
Why does some random girl making some throwaway comment put him on tilt, shakes his confidence so much that he goes into a fight or flight response?
It’s a few things in my mind
- He’s not used to how girls talk
- He expects a certain level of respect that MUST be afforded to him
- The whole connection has to be controlled.
Classic PUA (Mystery Method and all the derivatives) and Contemporary Game (Red Pill plus being Alpha) don’t ask the man to investigate why he is feeling a certain way.
If the man were to stop and ask himself
Why am I running around like a chicken with its head cut off because this random girl who means nothing to me mentioned some random guy don’t know?
Then he’ll start to understand what to do pro-actively, instead of reacting. After you get down the techniques – game then becomes something of “self” control, as opposed to trying to control the girl or every situation. Gaining self control is one of the benefits that can be employed in the rest of your life.
The Girl’s Response
Whether or not the girl realizes that he’s reacting poorly, and doesn’t have a “solid frame” at the moment she makes this comment is not really the issue. She could actually notice through body language that the man gets weak when she talks about other men. His weakness shows a lack of deep confidence. In general, I think most of us veterans believe that in order to pull a chick but also to keep her – you need 100% confidence at all times.
If he falters, the lioness who eats beta chumps for breakfast, will crush the guy and keep it moving. The considerate girl, initially, she’ll tone that part of her self down. She wants to get with this guy and doesn’t want to scare her away. Deep down the “nice” girl is a lioness too. If she has to tiptoe around trying not to her her guy’s feelings – she’s constrained. That will not last.
Q. Why don’t guys “get in touch” with their feelings?
A. Because in the world of men, we have no feelings beyond sleep, wanting to fuck, hunger, and aggression. Elsewise, we are robots.
Because we aspire to be robots, or at least emotionally consistent in our dealings – we don’t see when the code of manhood gets in the way of what we’re trying to accomplish.
But sometimes the code doesn’t help.
One of the problems dudes from rough hoods deal with when they start to mingle with the rest of society, is their survival strategy doesn’t fit the environment. He dresses tough and acts tough in places where there is only loss for that behavior. You might be a pitbull at Westminster kennel club, but these poodles aren’t trying to fight.
The new guy dealing with this situation is applying defense mechanisms in a situation that does not call for it.
So what’s happening here
Let’s take it a level deeper, why is he defensive, why is he threatened or hurt?
In the PUA days, the thought was that by letting her talk about other guys, he was becoming her best friend, entering the dreaded friend zone. Because she was talking to him like she would talk to a girlfriend. She was so comfortable and NOT sexually intrigued that she did not need to edit herself.
In the modern era, where guys are even less likely to think things through – this was a shit test and without saying a word he has communicated to the girl that he is a beta. “No way dude, I’m an alpha! I’m gonna put this bitch in her place!”
So an angry reaction happens, and the girl might tamp down, or she might get offended. In the case of the chick shutting herself off but still hanging – she now knows how to get under his skin. That’s not something she asked for, but it is a gift.
Why do old school guys and modern guys do this?
The old school PUA guy didn’t think of alpha/beta. Instead he thought he was losing a chance to get with the girl. It’s a retread for him on all of those sad sack years of being the girlfriend with a dick. The “emotional tampon”
The new guy from the modern era, hopped up on being a macho man, has it worse – his sense of self, his ego is at stake.
On her side
Keep in mind, this chick is 105 lbs soaking wet, and just relays a funny (to her) anecdote as a way of keeping the conversation going. She’s actually trying to connect. So in this “getting to know one another” scenario, she is not thinking about boundaries.
She is not thinking that I’ve got the perfect double bind statement to emasculate this guy and use him for my entertainment.
So, this is not a test? Right?
And this is where being a veteran comes in to play. It’s not an explicit conscious test on her part. It’s not that kind of test. She’s not trying to uncover a flaw in the guy on purpose. But if he reacts poorly, she will take note of that.
Women and Testing
This is a key thing to understand about women in general. Some women will consciously and intentionally put you in a no win situation. This is the chick that flirts with a guy that you don’t like to see what you’re gonna do about it, to get you jealous.
That happens, but is not the norm. What happens more often, is that the guy finds himself in a situation where he doesn’t know what to do, reacts poorly, and the woman will take an emotional note of the guy. He’s in stress, so now she’s in stress.
The classic one is the pornstar on a date with a regular guy.
- They’re at a restaurant
- The waiter brings him the wrong dish.
- The guy doesn’t make a fuss.
- He doesn’t stand up for himself.
- She hates this
- So she makes a big deal out of it on social media.
The key to this story was that she didn’t engineer the missing steak. But when he didn’t act the way that she thought he should, she went ballistic.
She reacted to his actions, but she didn’t test him.
Lemme push this idea even further. What you say when you make your approaches doesn’t matter that much. How she reacts doesn’t matter either that much either. But getting control over the pull comes down to how you handle her reactions.
Let’s get back to this problem of the chick bringing up sex with guys before you.
What does the Veteran Think?
She’s not testing him
She’s just making conversation.
She’s not editing herself, because really, who the fuck are you?
- I am just one dick in a line of many.
- I’m literally nobody to her.
- I have some inherent value, but because if this is online dating, and she’s cute (even when she isn’t) – her inbox is full of guys that want to take her out in chances of fucking her.
If anything, she likes you and feels comfortable.
From the vet’s perspective, there’s nothing about her behavior to be alarmed about. This is typical behavior. These green boys going to inner Azerbaijan to find a virgin will have you convinced that this chick is some secret porn star slut that’s going to emasculate you and then steal all your money….
In my view they just don’t *censored* enough chicks. Not enough hot young ones that just run on at the mouth and say whatever the fuck they feel at the time.
The Vet realizes that what’s really happening to him is that his is testing him.
That somehow his self image is being attacked. But this attack comes from within. She’s not trying to undermine him, but she
“This chick thinks you’re some little beta bitch boy that she can flaunt her sexuality at you, and you’ll never gonna get it.”
That’s some Newbie type thinking.
She’s not really testing a dude when she does this, it’s just her being her.
BUT IT IS A TEST.
It’s 2 tests in a way.
Test #1 – a test for you – Can you always keep your emotions in check when you deal with a chick?
Test #2 – If you don’t get your emotions in check, she will see how much random comments will fuck with you. She not only sees this as you not being able to handle her, to handle chicks, but to handle LIFE.
If a chick that’s 105 lbs soaking wet can unsettle you with a comment – how strong are you really?
That’s what she’s thinking if you get butt hurt.
That might turn her off right then and there. If you have other positive qualities and she stays in your orbit – she now has a tool that she can use to control you. This broad ain’t getting all Dr. Doom and shit, making plans on plans – but if you react with negative emotions, she will reflect that. Bitches rarely recall the substance of fights, they do recall how your emotions and how they felt.
That’s where the game is always played.
To go a bit deeper.
A submissive chick will buckle before you see the full range of her personality. A lot of the dudes nowadays like a weak ass chick that rolls over at anything. You will end up having to live her life for her. You don’t want a chick that is afraid to show you (and the world) who she really is.
But a typical chick will just see you as weak.
An evil chick will use you.
And they get this from your reaction to some nonsense.
If a chick really wants to fuck with you, TRUST ME, she can.
You know how a dude can say some shit to start a fight at the drop of a hat, a chick can say some shit to you that will make Steve Urkle turn into War Machine.
What are you supposed to do?
Step #1 – Stay Non Reactive
For guys thinking that all hope is lost, and he’s in the friend zone
- Stop defeating yourself
- Start seeing it as her trying to relate, be funny, communicate
Why? Because you cannot lose the idea that this thing is going to happen.
For the guys who’s egos are greatly threatened – the new school guys that must put down any sort of behavior that is not entirely submissive
- Don’t wrap your ego into this
- Expect that the chick will talk about BS
You have to view her behavior as typical.
Step #2 – What do I want?
1) Admonish – He could go all Super cartoonish Roissy esque alpha and correct her. If you have other positive qualities that she’s digging, she might just take the correction and never bring up those topics again. For the veteran, this is more about how he wants to run his life and affairs, more so than getting at one chick in particular.
2) Withdraw – He could play the aloof alpha and withdraw the emotional warmth every time she fucks up, and give her the warmth every time she does something right. Let her figure out how to behave based on how he reacts to her behavior. A lot of guys like this, but that’s something he does with a chick when she’s in his presence, or after they’ve made that connection.
In our situation, you can’t just play some waiting game over Text. there just isn’t enough sub-communication being sent like that. In person, where the girl is constantly taking his temperature, her own, and the room’s – this is much easier to accomplish. Over text – there’s not nuance.
These are two veteran options from the Alpha side of things. Lots of naturals and accomplished players don’t get into the “mind game”/social engineering/applied psychology thing that I’m trying to teach you guys.
Lemme just say that the difference between a new guy or a square getting all huffy about a chick’s comments vs a Vet – is that the Vet is making a choice versus the Newbie reacting to the situation. The Vet has no problems dropping a chick for the slightest of infractions.
The Veteran is trying to do 2 things
- Keep his ego intact
- Keep the chick on track to “Connection”
Vets know that chicks run off at the mouth 24/7. It’s typical female behavior that you can observe anywhere. You see it at work, at home, with your family, in school, on social media. And it getting risque is not so beyond the pale that it doesn’t happen.
If she ain’t talking about guys she’s fucked, she’s gonna have a funny story about getting the runs, or how she hates her dad, how she tricked her boss at work, or “those fucking black guys, Oh I don’t mean you”
For newbs and guys that don’t fuck young hot girls – think that these chicks are on their P’s and Q’s when they deal with “A true alpha”. I don’t really deal with the under 23 set that much (proxy for young and hot), but this type of behavior is normal.
Now I know that there are some RED PILL MOUTH BREATHERS out there saying – “She wouldn’t say that to George Clooney…” (Y’all know how much I hate this line of logic)
So what the vet does when the chick says some bullshit
- Does Not React
- Does Take Note
- Uses what she says to get him closer to his goal.
So if the chick starts talking about the two minute man, the Vet runs with that idea of inadequate sex partners. The new guy might try to one-up the girl, but what the Vet is trying to sub-communicate is that he’s okay with the girl’s sexuality. He doesn’t need to verbalize it, but he takes what she says and goes either a level deeper, or to something adjacent.
So an adjacent topic would be getting her to talk about crazy internet hook up experiences, and he would have one in the databank that will lead to the right directions. He wants to take some random comment from a chick and DIG DEEP, get her to go through all of the emotions just on this one topic. Personally, I’ll dig into the sensuality of french fries if she starts talking about McDonald’s.
Going a level deeper is trying to figure out what makes the girl tick. So the vet will cold read, or present a topic that gets her to explore her OWN feelings.
The reason the Vet does this is not necessarily to get her all hot and bothered and pull her libido by a string. Instead, the Vet does these things to KEEP HIMSELF in check and keeps the conversation lively.
Now if she does get a “randy” from texting it becomes a tight rope if you can’t close. This is similar to making out with a girl at the club and not being able to make the logistics easy for you to get her home in order to read the first chapter in Corinthians.
Keeping a chick warm over text is a topic for another time.
- Does not react
- He takes notce
- He acts to move the conversation in a direction that gets him closer to connection