This was on the forum. Here’s my expanded answer
Bumble bitch. Messages me. We chit chat. I ask for #. She says not till we meet because stalker in her past or some shit. I say ok. (first mistake no doubt).
So I continue to talk to her over the stupid app. Seems like playing into her frame. I say we should meet. She agrees. She then says coffee….which i absolutely hate for a date. But i agree because this bitch is hot.
So far I’ve been playing by her rules, again which I hate. Going to meet later today and need input on how to rapidly reset the frame so that I’ll be the one calling the shots if we ever meet again.
My take on the advice so far
1) Just Do Your Thing
– summed up as “it’s not an issue”
– not particularly practical or helpul
2) Lack of Frame
Basically you should just force the issue.
The problem with forcing the frame is that she hasn’t accepted it.
Trying to smash her into your world – ESPECIALLY A CHICK YOU JUST “MET” ONLINE – is a gamble and doesn’t address the problems in this scenario
3) Agree to her terms
Agree to her and then extend the date the way you see fit.
Somebody just put on their first pair of Gators!
Probably the best answer that handles some of the problems, even if it only frames this as a logistical problem.
[Ed. Hint Hint, it’s more than that that.]
The reason why guys don’t think of this answer is because
THAT BITCH BETTER DO WHAT THE FUCK I’M TELLING HER,
I’M THE MAN
BITCH BETTA RECOGNIZE…
Too much EGO leads to missing this solution.
This is not understanding your own psychology, or male psychology.
4) Agree to her terms/tour the town style date + “stop in” at your place
Takes the decent work around of #3, but then tries to sneak in some shit that she actually should expect, and would start flashing alarms.
5) Tease the chick about her situation but sandwich it with jokes
Teasing builds attraction by breaking rapport.
Is it possible that a few text messages can shoot your stock so high, change her mood and change her mind – Maybe. Anything is possible.
I write and persuade people for a living, so it could be in the cards…
6) Agree, Get Frame, Lead & don’t take her literally
Super strong answer. It’s like a better illustration of #3.
Other options that I wrote down at work, but didn’t actually make an appearance
7) FUCK THIS BITCH, SILENCE
8) Fuck you bitch, here’s why, BLOCK
Surprised there was no “take the Alpha high road” answers, which is what I expected to see a lot of.
What the veteran player sees?
In my view, the game is all about psychology
– Knowing your own – Why does her doing this make me so mad?
– Knowing what other guys do – What do other guys typically do i n
– Knowing what girls typically do – And this chick is not doing what they typically do
– Knowing what your particular chick is doing and how it fits into her particular psychology – This chick had a bad experience. Baggage to deal with
What’s really going on in this scenario?
Let’s really break it down.
It’s a meet stemming from online
– In person, at a night club, you wouldn’t be going through this
– In the day time, she’d be able to give you a smell test and figure out if you’re bad news
– Social Circle would be ideal for her – because she can vet you through other sources. You just being in the same circle is almost enough.
So from jump, what kind of problem do you have?
Do you have a sex problem? No.
Do you have an attraction problem? No.
Do you have logistical issues? No
What you have is an issue of basic trust.
So this is what that Netflix and Chill Post #2 was about, my post in the player’s lounge about rapid trust building, and the thread about a girl wanting to google your name.
Chicks that act like this do not have trust. (This will be important, follow)
What about attraction?
Glad you asked.
– This is an online meet at first – so a girl that responds well, means that you at least have a decent social profile. Give yourself a +1
– The fact that this was Bumble – which is girls choose – means that you definitely have a face/body/style that she’s looking for.
What about your text game?
– I didn’t read anything about it. But I’m just going to assume you’re the typical RVF guy, and you only text logistics, thus your text game is weak.
Write a shit load more. Write as much as I do, and your text game will become a strength and not a weakness. Not something that you can fuck up. Something that you can use so that you can fuck.
What about your online game?
– Again, this is an online pull, and I don’t see where you used any thing aside from your Bumble profile to pull this chick.
Did you like your awesome webpage of amazing travels, yachts, foods, chicks, memes, and puppies?
I’m guessing not. But if you have group shots of you with people, some of which are attractive girls, then that’s a way to show social proof, pre-selection, which helps with attraction. And also can convey that other bitches are SAFE around you.
Right off the bat, you’re not using tools that are available to you.
That’s neither her nor there.
This, so far, has been all about you.
What about her?
This broad told you she has a stalker.
1) Really bitch?
You have a stalker?
Like is he liking all your shit on Instagram?
He’s a stalker now?
Are you really that fine?
What the fuck are you doing on Bumble then?
An actually fine bitch has high quality offers IN REAL FUCKING LIFE.
2) Oh and you think *I’m* going to be a stalker?
That’s awfully presumptuous. Like I ain’t pumped and dumped finer bitches than you that gave me less of a hassle.
That’s whatever though.
In terms of game, what is she communicating to you?
She has enough attraction to come see you, but she does not TRUST you, or any man.
So that’s the real problem with this scenario.
She is telling you that she needs to build trust.
What happens when you build trust, comfort, and rapport AT A COFFEE SHOP?
You become her friend.
Her friends that are boys don’t fuck her.
She’s setting you up to fail.
She wants you to build trust first, not realizing her own psychology. MESSAGE.
So I just said you had attraction. This is perfectly in line with the sequence…right?
Let’s take a step back.
Before you can put P into V, you need 3 things.
Classically, you build attraction first, and you build trust afterwards. And it all culminates at the final location.
But it’s better to think of Attraction, Trust, and Location as slider knobs on a studio mixer. You keep adjusting the sliders to get the right sound, no distortion.
To get the date, let’s say you need an attraction level of 2 and a comfort level of 2. (please you inboxing newbs, don’t get pedantic about the #’s shit. IT’S A METAPHOR not an EQUATION)
– 2 on attraction – she can be seen in public with you
– 2 on trust – you’re not going to kill her
– 0 on logistics (unless you can sneak her into the bathroom for a quick bang)
As the date progresses
– Attraction moves up to 5-6 – she’s hanging on to your every word, eating out of your hand, going along with role plays, she’s adopted your frame. She’s in to you.
– Trust moves up to 5-6 – she’s very cool with you moving her around, touching her non-sexually. You aren’t doing weird shit. If you grab for her hand, she gives it. But when she pulls away, you’re w/o reaction. No neediness, no bad reactions. She doesn’t need to be careful around you.
– Logistics are at a 3 (you’ve changed venues, and you could engage in some PDA – though a smart player wouldn’t)
As you get closer to the end of the date
– attraction level hits 10
– the trust is about an 8
– logistics are at 8-10 as well. So that’s the walk to your car, in your car, the walk up to your place, in your living room, with 10 being her on the bed naked in your bed.
I don’t want to get too deep into this metaphor, but there’s a tension between all 3. When one goes up, the others go down, or sideways.
Most notably, When she really wants to fuck attraction wise, and when she’s in the place where she can fuck – That trust level isn’t a steady riser from 8 to 10. That 8 might just sit there for a long ass time, so long that attraction (the dopamine and other chemicals coursing through her brain start to subside)
There is something about being so turned on, and being in a place where shit can go down where her brain is like “YO, WE’RE NOT SURE ABOUT THIS”
And that’s where the player really shines. It’s the most important part of the short game – and it happens WAY BEFORE you get her back home.
The game is played in comfort.
Is she comfortable with you, around you, having you put your P into her V.
The game is about TRUST.
Where the bangs fail to happen, is that you can’t get that trust level to 10.
So that’s LMR in a nutshell. You’ve got attraction and a place to bang, but not enough trust. She trusted you enough to come home – but there’s that final hurdle of trust that she just can’t jump. And it’s usually something that happened WELL BEFORE you got her back to your spot.
And if you have to pull out an LMR buster, the way that typically works is you withdraw attraction, and she has to buy into your frame. This is her giving in, as opposed to her tearing your clothes off, or enthusiastically wanting her to fuck you. I don’t want to get deep into the LMR discussion either.
I bring this up because if you take her on a “tour of the city” style date – it builds trust – each place you go – each person you talk to – builds TRUST.
The walking date also provides a “plot” to your date. (Everyone thinks in narratives. Every body is a star in their own movie)
Here the chick has you at 2/2/0 with this coffee date
To get the P into V, you need the trust to get to 10….
Here the logic is inverted.
She wants trust NOW. Not when she’s more attracted, not when she’s in a place where she can be “free”.
The veteran knows that her thinking brain, the mammal brain, wants this thing that her reptilian brain (the ‘gina) does not want.
We can talk about attraction theory if you want – but as any dude here can tell you – getting a chick to trust you to the level she seems to want – will more likely than not dry up the pussy.
What usually makes it wet is NOVELTY (most attraction technique is showing her novelty, not letting her get it when she wants it, putting her in a validation cycle, and adopting your frame and exchanging pussy and everything else for a the novelty of being in your life).
Novelty is the enemy of Security.
Novelty is the enemy of Trust.
Trust is usually known as comfort and rapport.
Attraction material, the better stuff in my view, is about BREAKING rapport.
Weak dudes seek rapport. Players break rapport.
Players only seek rapport, after she INVESTS heavily.
So to get comfort, to get rapport, to get trust – you need to give her what she asked for.
And if a chick knows basically what to expect, and you meet her expectations – she’ll have the trust she needs.
She just won’t have the attraction.
Bitches secretly love this shit, even if they aren’t conscious of it.
From a male p.o.v, most broads are just problems for you to figure out, and
they love to make it has hard as possible.
So the walk around date is an option, especially if you come at it from the perspective that I NEED TO BUILD TRUST.
– paying for coffee
– having a plan to do something to afterwards
– interacting with customers, shop keepers, baristas – showing you’re social and normal
– guiding her through a crowd
– being decisive
– taking her to new places, and nothing bad happens
– taking her to new places, and you deal well with strangers
– taking her to new places, where people, girls esp, know you
– touching her, and then pulling back.
– showing some vulnerability, and getting her to volunteer it.
So you do the walkabout – with a purpose to get at the chick’s mind.
That’s the 1st strategy. She wants coffee shop, you pick one, and have an itinerary in line. The intermediate guy doesn’t just pick a centrally located coffee shop. The fail safe coffee shop is that if she flakes, you’ve got places to go.
The other options are more out of the box, advanced in nature. But they get at the main issue she has. She can’t really trust herself to make decisions. I’ve touched on this with the “Girl wants to bring a dog, or girl has a dog” type posts. Where the girl outsources her decision making to the dog.
A) Go to her fave coffee shop – charm the fuck out of everyone there. And have a plan.
B) Make her invite a friend – and then nip the trust thing in the bud – and charm both of them.
These options actually do what I would call a trust transference, a social safety blanket. But they use the trust factors of TRUSTED third parties to reinforce that she should trust you. Plus you get the added benefit of vetting her friend/friends to see if this is the type of chick you can stick your dick into, and whether she has hot friends that you can
fuck on the low read The Bible with.