My Man Iso brought this gem up.
I got respect for the Black Red Pill Squad in YouTube, and AMS is their leader.
To summarize AMS – Kobe is a “High Value Man” because he is serious, stayed on his purpose, maximized his skills, doesn’t laugh, doesn’t hang out with folks.
High Value … Sure.
Here’s Kevin on the topic
What do women think of as High Value?
https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/search?q=hvm&restrict_sr=1
Peruse at your leisure, but it’s “The List” of good qualities + particular behavior towards her. Mix in whatever political bent she is, and there you have it.
Arguably the crew at FDS are in the BBB Bitter Bertha Brigade – (feel free to swap out B’s as necessary). But the main thrust of FDS for the player is that what they want is aspirational and reflective of many women. AWALT? NAWALT? I don’t care.
The thing I do care about is this idea of “High Value”
I don’t blame the The Red Pill for this. You can trace back the ideas of the Sexual Market and Sexual Value back to Rollo, and even before that to Roissy.
As a metaphor, it makes sense.
But in practice, you get a lot of guys and increasingly women, trying to “looksmax”.
Vindicta is a great place to see how hardcore women have taken it.
Taking it to PUA old and new, there was some discussion of “value”. In particular out of the classic/indirect camp talked a bit about the evolutionary signals one can emit to attract women.
Mystery’s 5 Attraction Switches
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- Leader of men
- Protector of loved ones.
- Preselected by other women.
- The ability to emote.
- Risk taker.
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It’s from this basis that we get things like DHV stories. Demonstrating High Value via story telling is a key element of the old school. We would call it humblebragging today. Roosh incorporated the humble brag into GALNUC. And in this modern era, Instagram is used to demonstrate DHV.
From there the peanut gallery can debate whether you should have girls in your Tinder profile or not. Whether you should wear designer labels, or does it make more sense to get to 9% body fat….
Value is something that’s a static quality and within the man. If he has high value, it’s part of him and his behavior.
Value is something that can be seen with “honest signals” and the like. You get weird lines like
“People say that New Yorkers are mean and cruel. But everyone’s been nice to me”
The implication is that the speaker is “high value” and the behavior of others reflects that.
And these value chasers, value definers, be it “how to be a real man” from Internet Daddy or what a real man does from Twitter Mamis, Value is this thing that is tangible, objective, and external.
And this is why they all have the game fucked up.
This is why we get guys doing monk mode. This is why the blue pill has guys becoming actuaries, quants, or looking to get their legs broken to increase their height by 1 inch.
This is why guys turn to meditation, or want to learn dark triad stuff and become seducer sociopaths.
Real Value is the emotional responses you create in people.
Most of these Pick Up Gurus are not rich, tall, good looking, etc. The only one that I can think of that’s conventionally good looking has horrible game.
The PUA guru pulls because he goes out, he starts interactions with girls, he gets them to chase these feelings that he’s giving them.
Now some guys can generate those feelings by just being, some by fame. A pretty boy can get a girl wet just by his face.
Athlete/Rough Neck is often handsome, but his dominant attitude is the draw. Nobody, but guys in the community, likes to talk about how women like to follow someone, and just criticize actions from the passenger seat without ever taking the wheel herself.
Being tall doesn’t do anything for a girl, whereas being short is a turn off.
Somehow this happens
https://www.instagram.com/p/CE9u4SpqCfL/
Value isn’t static, it’s dynamic. Value is something generated in the interaction.
Random dude on the wall steps into a bunch of strangers, altering their experience in the world for a few brief moments, and they all start to get these intense feelings and emotions.
Sales, Business, Investment, Preaching, Politics, Teaching, Coaching, Psychiatry, Advertising, Marketing, Art, Music, Film, Comedy, Tragedy, Cooking
These things are TRUE VALUE.
These actual feelings that people get via interacting with others, with products, with intangibles, with tangibles – that’s VALUE.
So if I tell a girl an engaging story about the truth of the Titanic and she’s waiting on my every word… If a mediocre girl strokes the front of your pants, looks you in the eye, and walks away…. If the nut seller on Broad street ever comes back, and you smell that mix of peanuts, spice, and brown sugar – that’s real value.
That’s not only something that anyone can do, it’s something that we all do to each other, every day. You do it at work, at school, when you’re shopping, when you’re participating in social media…..
You are just unaware. Your mind is rarely engaged in that pursuit, and usually when you do think about these things (interviews), it’s for the wrong reasons.
The guy with game is conscious of it, and practices. That’s the difference.
What makes him truly high value is that by traveling down the road of feelings, sensations, and emotions – he creates these things within others.
-Archie
@Archie
“Being tall doesn’t do anything for a girl, whereas being short is a turn off.”
Yeah:
https://imgur.com/a/QVtmvL5
I always have to step in whe the height thing comes up because a lot of young men get seriously fucked up about it. And it’s not the first time I’ve heard of leg extension surgery. Fuck. That. Shit.
I’m 5’6” on a good day.
I wonder how much of my commentary on the height issue is the result of my generation (X) not being so hung up on height, where the Zoomers and to a large extent the Milennials are meeting life partners via filtering apps.
Goldmund had this ill story years ago about cold approaching Girl #1 at a bar, and her friend Girl #2 showing up and not believing that they weren’t on some sort of internet date – because guys don’t talk to strangers.
@Archie
There’s a few things here, and first and foremost I don’t think younger men can approach at all. I mean I think the root of it is they build this huge thing in their head where it’s “an approach” whereas for our generation it’s just “talking to girls” and there was no other way.
You can be out and there’s a group of women out and no one is talking to them. And they sit there all night, and go home alone.
If you do actually approach a woman now it can blow their mind because no one does it.
They still do mention height and it rung a bell so I pulled a bit of footage (sometimes I video it to put myself under a bit of pressure and cheer up the boys at TRM) from a week before the apocalypse of me in the street which is quite on topic:
https://imgur.com/a/PvjqRxM
But as ever it’s ignore what they say. When they say “short” what they really mean is “unattractive”. And that isn’t even about looks. Obviously the guy was short, and this was forefront in her head, but that wasn’t the issue, the problem was he acted “short” (weak) and was on the back foot with it.
I remember I got hold of a lawyer (I know) about 3 years ago and we’d been out for drinks and I was really “meh” about it but thought I’d invite myself in to her apartment for coffee after the date and we ended up on her sofa. So as the shoes came off and we were horizontal she said “oh you’re shorter than me”. (Shit test) I went “yeah” she said “Does it bother you?” I said “no” And she said “good. It doesn’t bother me either but it would if it bothered you”. And that was that.
And it didn’t bother her at all. Because the height was a proxy for dominance, and women today crave dominance which is in VERY short supply.
On another occasion I was out with one who must have been 5’11” in flats and we were queuing to get in a restaurant, it was busy so we get to the door and there’s a waiting list so I say to the waitress “can you put us on the shortlist?” Waitress says “yep” then I say “Actually, put me on the shortlist, obviously she’s gonna have to go on the tall list”. Making a thumb gesture to my date who eyerolls.
Again when we got back to hers for coffee; I went to use the toilet and when I came back out to her living room she’d lit all the candles and there was soft music playing so the rest was history.
So there was a 3rd one that springs to mind while I’m on a roll. She says “I’m taller than you” and I say “yeah don’t worry we’ll work out a route to the pub that avoids low bridges, but I’ll have to be careful with your doormat later because sometimes I get stuck in those and have to fight my way out”. Banged her as well on a first date.
So I think the online dating thing is hugely damaging because yes, women are excluding men they would fall head over heels in love with in real life based on height. Mathematically, only about 8% of men are over 6’. And whilst some of those are badass bastards, an awful lot are complete pussies. They get their opening shot based on their height, then the women realise they’re pussies and get totally frustrated with them.
So what I’m getting at is that it isn’t even a genuine filter in that it doesn’t have the result of delivering what these women crave. It doesn’t serve anyone at all.
All men should disregard it and take their shot anyway but do it in real life, not online.
I’m loving this.
Archie, this article hit home. As a youngin learning the game, 21, me and my friends watch this dude AMS nonstop. Him and Stephiscold just to name a couple. I recently took a break though and have been more invested in learning DD’s Advanced series and also reading Never Split the Difference. Those two things gave me the implication that you stated above: VALUE IS DYNAMIC and especially based on the circumstance. So many instances I knew that I had good qualities but couldn’t express it properly. I am now learning what I can safely say is “The Game”.
When you say good looking pickup artist with horrible game, do you mean more plates more dates?
No, he doesn’t know how to play chess/do the dance. So he misses signals and makes rookie mistakes, because he never had to learn.
So Archie So something hilarious has cropped up, need to put myself under a bit of pressure here and thought I’d talk it through.
I’ve moved out of the people’s republic of ghey (PRG) and now live back where I used to in what we call “the shires”.
Anyway when @IAS came down to the PRG we went out to a meet up and I got a smack around the face by the hostess. She queried why my beard was grey, and I said “because the women I deal with have sucked all the pigment out through my cock”. I got an instant slap. (Shit test) which I think I passed bc I didn’t bat an eyelid and just smiled at her.
After a bit we bounced location bc @IAS didn’t like (deservedly) the older woman in the set who had homed in on him. We could have worked her as a pivot but there wasn’t any point as no other candidates for him so we moved on and crashed a hen night.
I knew the slapper also ran a meet-up in London near me because she travels between the two locations. Working in London and staying with her daughter in the PRG at weekends. The london meet-ups are always her and a load of chumps lining up for her attention and hardly any women.
Anyway roll on da’pocalypse and there’s a meet up near my new place on Friday night and because of the REGULATIONS it’s limited to 6 attendees. Plus because of flakiness etc.. you have to pay in advance at RSVP. So they’ve all paid and so have I.
So I’m looking at the attendees on the meetup at the Italian restaurant and it’s 4 women so far. Looking at the women, and there’s a blonde and I’m thinking “ I know you”.. and then I remember, I already banged her 😂. She was hot but from memory I didn’t keep her in orbit bc I thought she was nuts and I had others on the go. She was mid 30’s and she’d claimed she’d only had one previous bf that she’d met on a uniform dating site. I remember I thought “yer right. You’ve banged the entire battalion” at the time.
So it’s me, one woman that’s slapped me round the face, and one I’ve already banged plus two would bangs. There’s one free space and I’ll bet that none of the men have the balls to walk into a group on those ratios so it will be filled with another woman.
So I want to bang either or both of the two I don’t know. And would bang the “slapper” host at a pinch. My gut is that she is hardcore BB filtering. I’d met her at prev meet-ups and tried to isolate her but she always had a “time slot” allocated to give her an exit so I always blew it up and didn’t play. I just have never believed there isn’t some tatted AF badass tapping that in the background and she had me in the BB category.
Communication has been on and off over the months since she slapped me as shown here:
https://imgur.com/a/uVVMUjC
I opened her after a period of time may 5th 2019 because she’d posted a new event, she replied that she’d been getting others to host (too busy getting banged out by Chad) but said she thought she’d come and do another weekend (got dumped by Chad and needs a new one / or BB provisioning).
Then I ignored and she hit me up Feb 13th (day before valentines bc she’s so ronery!! Lol)
I ignored that.
Then she had a meet up event in the PRG which I went to on Mar 6th 2020, but I walked in, took one look at the attendees, and walked out without speaking to her or anyone else. She texted me at 8.59 the same evening which I ignored. I then texted her the next day at 10.22 AM inviting her over which she ignored.
So there’s a hardcore frame battle going on here and I haven’t had enough DHV to win it on AF terms YET. I know for a fact that she’s been out with much older and frankly gross men bc she’s sussing them out for munny. The script is the same. She goes out with a time limit bc she’s gotta be back, she drives and doesn’t drink much, but collects them or drops them back so she can check out their place.
Anyway I’m not doing that.
Logistics are “OK” back to my place but I’m gonna have to drive which means almost no drinking for me, of course I could “give anyone a lift” home.
At the moment the plan is to enter the group like I own it, be super happy friendly with the hostess who slapped me – she’ll be happy friendly back, perhaps I’ll lead and try to get another slap as an opener – I’ve been growing some grey stubble just for her, then greet the one I banged like a long lost friend?
Any suggestions..
Need a bit of fun. Posted here to put myself under pressure!
So what happened?
@Sentient
So what happened. Yeah well, you’re gonna shoot me.
So I arrive and bc of the RULES were on two tables, and I should be on table two, but there isn’t a table two because it’s still occupied by previous sitting. So I get shoved onto table one. There’s a very fit blonde late 40’s and an old guy of 70 ish. She is super relieved to see me but I’ve got no other focus bc this guy is senile and can’t tie his shoelaces never mind converse.
Blonde has an entire bottle of wine and is up for it. Next arrival is a brunette. And then slapper arrives with a chump and our table of 6 is complete.
Another table empties just in time and the other 6 to arrive including the other woman I’ve banged. Their table composes 3 chumps 3 women. All have eaten too many pies.
So I’m sat with chump on my left ( he’s a savant) senile guy on my right. Slapper my opposite left, brunette who has just got divorced opposite me and blonde to my right opposite.
I ignore all apart from slapper and chump savant. Chump savant is quite a good laugh. But the blonde and the brunette are trying to make conversation and I’m ignoring / otherwise engaged with savant and slapper.
I do engage with blonde and brunette slightly but not much and it’s decided we are all to bounce location to get Irish coffee.
En route to coffee blonde makes drama about her taxi so I offer to drop her back bc it’s not far out of my way and I’m not drinking. I know she’s DTF (IOI’s have been flying) and if I get her back for coffee it’ll be a done deal.
Slapper overhears this and says “hey you behave yourself” or similar. Blonde makes big drama = it’s a long way out of my way. I shrug, say “I’m not drinking and you’re 5 minutes up the road so it’s up to you” then I walk off and talk to slapper ignoring blonde.
I recite the event when slapper slapped me around the face and she pleads ignorance and wants me to explain what happened which I do.
We get to coffee location ahead of the other 6 and are on two tables again. I’m “bullied” by blonde to get in behind the table and she shoves me in and then comes in behind me smashing me sideways with her arse. And pushing me along the couch. The brunette takes a chair the other side of me.
I forget the small talk. I give both some stick. Blonde is talking turbo, brunette has just separated and divorcing. He’s gone off with much younger woman which is causing debate.
Blonde then says that she’s got a lift home off the older senile guy bc he lives next to her. I say “ great I’m off the hook” and shrug.
So now one of the other group arrives and sits opposite. He’s a pro lockdown public sector pie eating chump. He engages in a bit of shit about how scary the apocalypse is and I make the mistake of engaging.
I’m not in the best of moods with my last business being annihilated, and have had to re build yet again.
He puts up a modest fight and says I’m an anti vaxer, and other such shit. And well. It’s not pretty.
I tear him a new arsehole. Yuge one. In fact he doesn’t know what hit him.
He’s a useful idiot. Brunette is highly intelligent and weighs in on my side and blonde doesn’t know what hit her. Chump is gasping like a goldfish.
Im so fucked off with him that I dump cash with the slapper and tell her I’ve had enough socialising with arseholes and I’m getting an early night.
Both girls and the bloke are stunned and I exit.
So yeah, you’re gonna shoot me. I should have at least number closed on either of the two definite bangs and now we’re locked down.
Yikes
IDK Palma, why you aren’t cold approaching 25 yos and leave these damaged goods on the shelf.
Sure Corona is messing things up. But… If you’re not up for nighttime game just find those coffee/smoothie places and use that day game to fill your pipeline.
Honest answer is I haven’t cracked it with the younger women thing.
As you know I’ve nailed a 25 y/o and also another nearly 30. But I don’t have it licked on a repeatable basis.
I’d written you a long response but truth is for some reason I’ve just not closed most of what I’ve worked on. (Have turned down a lot of drunk / fat younger ones)
I think now I’ve changed location back it’ll be easier, this may be in my head more than anything else.
I’m mainly pissed off because were now shut down. It’s all closed apart from work. So no coffee shops or bars And bc I’ve moved back the nurse plate is only gonna turn up once a week as opposed to 4 times a week through the last lockdown.
All I had to do was ask blonde or brunette for their number and they would have been here and DTF to fill the gap.
But I’m a stroppy bastard. Which is a double edged sword.